TRANSCRIPT

MATTHEW OGDEN: Good afternoon, it's January 11th, 2016.  My name is Matthew Ogden and you're joining us for our weekly discussion with the LaRouche PAC Policy Committee.  As you can see, I'm joined in the studio by Jason Ross and by Diane Sare; and we're joined over by not only Mr. Lyndon LaRouche, himself; but also the other members of our Policy Committee: Bill Roberts, from Detroit, Michigan; Dave Christie, from Seattle, Washington; Kesha Rogers, from Houston, Texas; Michael Steger from San Francisco, California; and Rachel Brinkley from Boston, Massachusetts.

So, Lyn, I'm going to let you begin, if you have any opening remarks.

LYNDON LAROUCHE:  I do, and these are big ones.  It'll be fun.

But Paul Gallagher and I had an extensive exchange this morning on the issues here.  And it was obvious what my conclusion was, there is no option for postponing what I have to say right now.  What is happening is, that there is a now a new surge, which is to come into effect tomorrow, when the President is about to make a statement on the future of the economy.  Now, the fact of the matter is, if nobody intervenes, to denounce that policy, today—not tomorrow, but today—we will not be able to frustrate a genocidal effect on the people of the United States, in particular.  Because they will find, the conditions already — as Paul and I went through this, this morning—you have a condition in which there is no possibility of keeping people alive, under the present trends of conditions, because the next step that will come from Obama, if he's allowed to do it that way, without being taken on, then you have a death threat that you are culpable in, in allowing this to happen.

That is, if we say, stop your bullshit. Your economic policy of the United States, and of the British Empire, in general, demands the immediate mass genocide of the people of the trans-Atlantic community.  That's a fact!  If we expose that now, we still have a last moment of chance, before this next day; they might be able to do something to prevent this thing from happening.

Now is something [on which] we must act in a certain definite way, not a way,  "well, let's interpret this this way"; or "let's interpret this way."  Forget all this interpreting. Forget it! This thing has to be shut down, and you have to say, "No!"  There is no option.  If you propose any option, you're going to kill the people of the United States.  That will wipe out the United States, as well as other nations.

Therefore, you've got to indict Obama, for what he has done so far, on the implications of it, and we have to get him out of office now!  That doesn't mean we can get him out of office today, or tomorrow, but it means we can set into motion, an indictment against him, and his policies, which will have that effect in the short term.

And I have a lot more to say about it, but I think that's a summation which really puts the point.

DIANE SARE:  Well, I think that's very timely.  As you know, we have a rally today at Wall Street, at also Federal Hall, where George Washington was inaugurated, and where Alexander Hamilton is being remembered, since this is his birthday today.  And it's absolutely appropriate that we would shut down Wall Street at this moment.

And I'll just say that I think people should not make the mistake of taking lightly what you are saying about this crisis. We already have the figures from that Princeton study, about 500,000 middle-aged, white Americans, who have died as a result of the Bush and Obama administrations, that was taken from 2001 to 2013, basically.

What you're looking at right now with this collapse, and what we've already seen, which you, Mr. LaRouche, warned of in the middle of December, the blow-out hitting immediately when the New Year began.  The thing is absolutely out of control.  And the only thing that they can do, if not put out of business, is to kill people.  And it's war.  We see these military provocations, with the situation with North Korea.  We have the Syria ISIS situation, and Obama is a complete lunatic.  So having him in there at such a moment is the greatest possible liability to the United States, and the people of this country.

LAROUCHE:  Yeah, well, it goes beyond that, much beyond that.  That is part of this effect.  But look at what Paul Gallagher and I have discussed this morning.  This thing is already stipulated.  The people who have been negotiating this, and discussing this, have actually laid it out so precisely, that there's no conclusion.  Either you shut down, exactly the way that Franklin Roosevelt did, in his shutting down of Wall Street. You have to do that now!  And you will save the United States, in the same degree that that action saved the United States, under Franklin Roosevelt.  And therefore, what we have to do, is we have to put [out] that thing, and list some of the things of the crimes; like how people in certain generations are killed, in varieties of mass killing, in terms of their nominal employment and the hopelessness of the situation which they're faced with. In other words, they are on the edge of being turned into dead dogs being gnawed in the streets.  And that's what is happening.

Therefore, we must shut down Wall Street now.  And Wall Street must be shut down!  Cancel it!

Don't worry about it, because then what we do, when you cancel it, you then have to follow it up with a supporting action, which is a Franklin Roosevelt solution, to organize mass funding for people who have lost their income, sources of income; for people who have been tortured to death by the food, and so forth, conditions, under which they live and work; and bring that into focus; and get the unity of expression of people, who have been, and are being destroyed, by these methods used by Wall Street.

And if you do that, and say, "Wall Street is the criminal. You've got to get rid of the criminal.  It's the Wall Street gang.  That's the criminal!"  And you have to say that clear and loud.  Otherwise you are just wimping along.

I'm sure that some of us, others that are sitting here, do have things to contribute to that thing, and I think we ought to get into that.

OGDEN:  I mean, absolutely, Glass-Steagall must be immediately re-instated.  This is not something that can wait for the Presidential election cycle, or something, even though it has become a major discussion point, at least in the Democratic primary elections.  But Glass-Steagall must be re-instated, as you have said Lyn, because we are in the midst of a blow-out of Wall Street as we speak.  This is not something which is happening in the future, but as Diane referenced, as you had been warning about, going back into the middle of December of last year, January 1st was going to be a trigger-point, at which we saw a complete blow-out of the trans-Atlantic financial system. And I know Paul Gallagher has documented this.  It's happening now.

Last week the Dow lost 6.5%.  This is part of an evaporation of $4 trillion in global equity.  The oil price has collapsed by 10%, in just one week.  You've had the complete seizure in corporate bonds being issued in Europe, because, why?  The bail-in law was instituted on January 1st.  It became law, and it had the consequence that should have been expected.  The entire market has seized up.  Not one major bond has been issued in the entire week, of the first week in January.  This is a complete unheard-of circumstance.  The entire thing is happening now.  And this is already written into law in the United States.  The bail-in is the law of the land in the United States, because of Dodd-Frank.  And what was Dodd-Frank?  Dodd-Frank was the Obama administration's effort to do everything at all costs, to prevent Glass-Steagall from being re-instated, as it should have been, in the aftermath of the crisis of 2008.

And I think people should take very seriously what your warning is here, Lyn, because, remember,  I mean I had the occasion last night to see "The Big Short," which I think a lot of people are seeing now—excellent movie, people should see it—but it's bringing attention to what happened in 2007-2008, the crisis at that time; but what's not being said is uniquely, Lyn, you were one person who was warning, for years, that this is what was going to occur.  This entire bubble was about to blow-out.  And it did.  You warned about it, and literally days later, Bear-Stearns, Lehman Brothers, the entire thing collapsed.

And at that time, Glass-Steagall should have been reinstated.  And the fact that it wasn't, by first the Bush administration, and now the Obama administration, is a crime. And it is a crime that has killed people in the United States already.  And if this thing comes down without us having an immediate Franklin Roosevelt effort to intervene, restore Glass-Steagall, and put this entire thing through bankruptcy reorganization, many, many, many more people will die, as you're saying.

LAROUCHE:  The point is, to put the emphasis that what Franklin Roosevelt did, worked: Which means you cancel all the assets, the so-called assets, outstanding, of Wall Street.  You cancel all of them, and that's the first step of saving the United States.  The next step is you have to have to provide a funding, based on Federal funding, which then enables us to get the people, who are out of work and in danger, and get them into a situation where they become functional; as Franklin Roosevelt did in his programs, and associates of his programs, which enabled us to come out of death, virtual death, coming out of the Hoover treatment.  And then we found that the United States was the greatest power that had ever been, under Franklin Roosevelt, in one decade.  In one decade, Franklin Roosevelt had saved humanity, to a great degree, except for the British, who came along, sneaking around.  But the point is, that's the point. That's the lesson of history.

There are other lessons to be added.  But the difficulty is that the average person today does not understand what those principles are, because they are ignorant of these things.  But, as we saw in the 1930s, once you open the gates, where you get the very poor, the people who are without any option at all, and you bring them in, support them.  You give them at least a mediocrity of capability.  Then you give them a next step, and you give them a little better employment, which they're able to absorb at that point. And then you get to the 1936 period, which is the beginning of the success, in the 1936 period, that period.

And beyond then, we made immediately, we emerged clearly as a leading power in the world, done by the means of killing Adolf Hitler.  By killing Adolf Hitler, and what he represented, and the kind of crumb-bums that were around him, you created an option for the people of the United States, as well as for other nations.

What has happened is, that when Franklin Roosevelt was actually pushed toward and into his own death by the FBI — and it was the FBI that killed Franklin Roosevelt.  Not directly, but indirectly, because of the pressures which came down on him in the attempt to save the economy, the method that he himself had prescribed earlier.  And therefore, this is the history which we have to look at, from the fall of the Hoover Administration, to the collapse of what happened of the present administration, that is immediately after the Wall Street crowd got in.

Now we must not fail, as we failed when Franklin Roosevelt needed support, on history.  And that's the option.  In the short, that's exactly where it is.  We must shut down Wall Street now.  Wall Street must be shut down overnight, that is in relative overnight, at least. And the people must also know that there's a hope of reversing the kind of treatment of their employment—or non-employment—which is hitting the people today, as in the early 1930s, when Franklin Roosevelt, and so forth, moved in, to give the people a hope of existence. It was a very poor existence, because the United States had very poor abilities to do anything, but we did it, step-by-step, and Roosevelt did it. By 1936, this was already a success, and this moved into defeating Hitler, with the help of Stalin. [laughs] And the British were not too happy about that. They liked Hitler. They only fault they found with him, was that he lost.  He didn't carry out his job!

But anyway.  This is the context which I would say, is the context of the issue here. You've got to say this is something which is a lesson, has to be adduced from the 1932 period, on. If you don't see that, and you don't see how Franklin Roosevelt got us out of that, then you don't understand what the hell is happening to us, as a result of the collapse of the economy, and the morality of the people of the United States. Because they sold their souls, in trying to get something better for themselves, but at the expense of the other guy. And that's Wall Street.

OGDEN:  Okay. Michael, you can go ahead.

STEGER:  Okay. Lyn, one of the points you've made in the recent period, is this unprecedented nature; because what stands out clearly is that this financial disaster that you're referencing, it changes the entire political situation from the United States. It's the conditions by which Obama must be brought down, and this administration must be put to an end. And there's a couple of facts that stand out in my mind: one, is that the lack of jobs, the so-called Jobs Report, but the lack of jobs, the kind of jobs people are getting in the United States today, are of a Nazi concentration camp quality, because they're not getting enough to survive. It just kills them faster. It's like the so-called 1,000 calories-a-day, but you burn off 4,000. You're killing people. You're not paying them enough, to actually secure a livelihood for the American people, and the jobs are not productive. They're not actually oriented towards building the country. And this has been systemically implemented. So, there's no jobs; it's just a kill rate; it's a death rate for the American people.

The other factor, is that this crisis was blatantly exposed last Summer, with the Greek situation. Because the Greek situation, Greece as a country, was turned into a concentration camp as a whole. And it was made very clear: They could not pay the debts. They could not pay it; het they were forced into a murder policy, and what was exposed at that time, was that quadrillions of dollars of debt on the books of these banks and this financial system, are worthless. That was exposed, it was made public, and this system has gone into an accelerated crash since that point. We are now at the death knell. You saw it, personally, prior to the holidays, and it is now an accelerating condition on a global scale. This trans-Atlantic system is gone!

I think it's interesting that you are here today to play the role that you were asked to play, by the people who carried on Franklin Roosevelt's tradition — to be a guardian of that tradition. That's exactly what's required to secure that policy today. That's exactly what must be done. And you personally represent that tradition more than anyone else in this country.

LAROUCHE:  I have a burden on my soul. [laughs] I have to do that.

OGDEN:  Well, Michael, I think it's very important, actually, that you brought up the Greece situation, because now the other thing that we're seeing in the United States since the beginning of this year, is "Greece" brought to the United States, with the Puerto Rico situation. And here you have the rape of a Territory of the United States by the "vulture funds," the same vulture funds that were doing the same thing in Argentina, in Greece, and elsewhere. And the refusal to intervene on the side of the people of the United States, or the people of Puerto Rico, against these vulture funds—of Wall Street—is yet another indictment on Obama and on the Members of Congress, who are not intervening into this situation. Puerto Rico needs a "New Deal," not these vulture funds.

The same thing happened, remember, last year, in Detroit. It was the same, exact, vulture funds, who were taking advantage of the situation in Detroit.

So, here we have yet one more "test case" for exactly the same kind of situation. How would Franklin Roosevelt have responded? I think that has to be the touchstone question. And, Bill, you might want to say more about the situation in Detroit, since that point.

BILL ROBERTS:  Nothing has been resolved. But the initial issue was that our Constitution is organized on the basis of the General Welfare. And the State Constitution of Michigan even had very specific Amendments that protected, for example, the public pensions. The whole point of this Dodd-Frank, the whole point of these attempts to, basically, have a financial looting process that takes away any principle of the General Welfare, is that they are saying that these financial instruments have the priority over that.

It's important to point out, that the fact of the matter is, that you cannot actually save this volume of financial derivatives, and there's no intention to actually do that. So, I think, as we're discussing here, the only thing that's actually happening, is a destruction of the physical productive capabilities of the nation.

DIANE SARE:  I also want to add, on this question of "Wall Street," the sheer criminality—and I know, Lyn, you've brought up, in previous discussions, the question of "law." We ran into this some years back, when we were fighting for the Homeowners and Bank Protection Act. And people would say—and this is something we really have to combat with the foolishness that has set in upon a demoralized American population—"Well, they signed the contract! Well, they signed the contract!" Well, if I sat here and told you that I was holding in my pocket the deeds to six houses, and I was going to give them to you for $50, I was going to sell them, and we signed the contract, and then it turns out they were six outhouses, I should be guilty of fraud. But the argument of these people, is "No, you have to pay, because we signed a contract." And this is complete insanity. It has nothing to do with reality; it has nothing to do with Natural Law. But it does have to do with the population that's been terrorized. So decide that they cannot, therefore, think. So, then you have Wall Street and these vulture funds, saying, "Well, I have your signature on record. You agreed to drop dead and to kill six million of your people, and I'm here to collect." And the thing should just be thrown out; there is nothing to save. And that's the beauty of Glass-Steagall. What Lyn is saying, to "bankrupt and crush," there's absolutely no redeeming feature to this. There is nothing that should be honored. A bunch of people should be following Barack Obama to jail, on Wall Street.

DAVE CHRISTIE: You know, Diane, I just think that the insanity of these kind of arguments also filters over into why people think that the collapse is on, or what the cause of the collapse is. The idea that the Chinese stock market is the cause of it, when it's a "whopping" 2% of global stock market activity. Europe and the United States are well over 60%. Or, the recent one, which I just am floored that people are so idiotic to even believe it, which is that "the pace of job creation is so intense right now, that that's what's causing the jitters of the stock market." [general laughter]

So, I mean, the fact that people even believe this crap, just shows how far divorced their mind is from a physical notion of value. It's physical economy which is at issue. All this stock market stuff doesn't mean anything, when you look at the reality of the degradation and collapse of productive capabilities, the productive power of labor, since the death of FDR and other markers along the way—which, of course, Lyn has, uniquely, identified.

Now, from that standpoint, I think the point which also, Mr. LaRouche, you've emphasized, it has to be a unity of effect across the nation as a whole. If you look at everything that Franklin Roosevelt did, [it] was in line with that quality of unity, and I wouldn't doubt that the echoes of what his grandfather, Isaac Roosevelt—who worked with Alexander Hamilton—that his conception of physical economics, and so on, obviously was in line with that tradition. But, you look at the "Four-Corners" project. You look at what was done, here, in the Pacific Northwest, of the energy, you look at the Hoover Dam, you look at the Tennessee Valley Authority—he did all of this, with an idea that he was going to bring the nation together. And I think that quality of national unity is crucial in this kind of moment.

I know Kesha had some insights into this insanity of people who want to secede from the Union, down in Texas. Now, granted, in Texas, that's been going on since Day 1. But, you know, we get this up here: "Cascadia," that people want to secede from the Union. Northern California, Southern Oregon: it's called "Jefferson." There's all these kinds of secessionist-type movements, that are manipulated upon, because people have lost a sense of national mission. They view the government as the people that dragged them into worthless wars, or bail out criminal bankers, or steal their money, or spy on them, vs. how they should be seeing the nation, which is as Bill identified: it's the core of the Constitution, is this General Welfare principle, that we act as a single, coherent, whole.

LAROUCHE:  One thing you have to avoid, at all costs: you cannot say that there's justice for money, per se. Anything to make conditions, of consent, on the basis of money, as being the basis for wealth—that is the root of the problem. We're getting now—Paul and I were discussing this back and forth this morning—what's happened, is that "labor" no longer means labor. People are being paid, but it's not labor. It's murder. And that's the point. Money is not something which has a self-evident value. Value depends upon the creative powers of mankind, to make better the conditions of life of mankind, in various kinds of ways—to save mankind from dangerous forces that may come upon mankind. Look, we have all kinds of things that may strike us, on Earth, within galactic terms. In other words, the galactic system is there. If the galactic system does something dirty to us, we are helpless. So, the question is: what is our means of protecting people who have to increase their productivity, in effect, and the ability to achieve that?

For example, school, education. The educational system in the United States, in general — from coast to coast, and ghost to ghost, as well— is the point that the system, itself, even the school system, destroys the minds of the people, the students, so that they lose the ability, to be productive. They say, "I have a job." "A job? What kind of a job?" "Well, I'm paid off for this. I'm paid off for that. I get paid for this." "How much did you produce? And to what benefit of mankind?" There, they walk out of the room in rage, because they know I've caught 'em. They're caught! They're cheaters!

The point of this is, what are the conditions under which we employed people in the 1930s, what did we do? We increased the productive powers of labor!  We didn't increase the money powers, we increased the productive powers of labor.  And what happened? Wall Street moved in, along with the FBI. And they didn't agree with anything about productive labor.  They believed in a system, a real system; a vicious system with the intention to kill. And now, you're seeing it right now, in the trans-Atlantic community, the premium in the trans-Atlantic community, as opposed to certain parts of Asia; like Russia, like China, like India.  You find that in Asia, there is a real movement against this kind of process, where they're putting the value on the productivity of the people, the human productivity of the people, the skills they have, the ability to create things, to overcome the problems of galaxies, and things like that.

So.  But, it's this is what defines mankind, as mankind, the creative powers of mankind, the actual creative powers, not somebody's employment rate: What can you produce?  What can you produce for mankind?  What discovery, what principle can you discovery which will enable mankind to be more powerful, in dealing with the challenges?  This is where the reality lies.  It does not lie in money, it lies in the productive power of the human mind in action.

KESHA ROGERS:  This conception of the creative powers of the human mind, flies right in the face of this policy by the British Empire and Wall Street and those who represent that interest, intention, to divide and conquer the United States, under the idea of private property, states' rights and free market.  And after attending a conference this weekend which expressed just that British intention to go away from what was defined in our U.S. Constitution Preamble, and the Declaration of Independence, as the "right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," not that of property, and looking at human beings as nothing more than animals, you can see that that is a continued fight that we're up against right now, in terms of the need to, once and for all, rid the United States and mankind overall from this British intention, to divide mankind and divide the nation.

And I'll just say that, one of the things that I encountered at this convention that I went to, not only as mentioned earlier, do you have this insane push [audio loss 33.14-21] ... dividing the republics, to bring the United States back under the control of this British colonial — and I had an opportunity to encounter the notorious, or infamous, if you will, Phil Gramm.

LAROUCHE:  Oh my!  [laughter]

ROGERS:  I went up to Phil Gramm and told him that he should be indicted for his crime against the United States in the shutdown of Glass-Steagall, for his actions in being involved with the criminal banks of UBS [Union Bank of Switzerland], and Crédit Suisse, and everything that they represented; which he denied and said, "Who me?  I shouldn't be indicted."

But the other thing is that when asked about his comments on his decision to repeal Glass-Steagall his response to that was, "Well, it was the right decision; I stand by it.  It would not have ever done anything to stop the collapse.  And even Bill Clinton said that it was a decision that should have been made."

And it just, once again, goes to show that once we eliminate Wall Street which has to be done right now, we can eliminate the control of these types of British cronies from our nation and from having control over the institutions that shape the policy of our nation.  And I think that's the only objective to survival that we have right now, is that the fight is that the nation has to be unified; and any intention to go against that has to be eliminated.

LAROUCHE: Well, there's another issue here, which is very important.  You see the question of that, is the question of value.  What do we mean by value?  One person says, "Money measures value; wealth, as such, as perceived, is value."  I don't agree.

The point is that mankind has gone through various phases. One phase which is very popular is the Satanic phase, and most of humanity has lived through a Satanic phase, sometimes called the Zeusian phase, but that's only one case of it; and the fact that we're not changing, the function of mankind on Earth and beyond, we're not changing that in a way which will enable mankind, to meet the challenges which nature has confronted mankind with.

So there's the creative powers, of the human will, which are not something you can copy just as on a piece of paper. Money is not value. Money is a measure of whether your money has become corrupt or worse than ever, or maybe has gotten back a little bit better as a reflection of more productivity. And productivity is not just the quantity; productivity is not quantity! Productivity is the ability of the human mind, to make discoveries in the universe, within the universe, which are new and give mankind greater power, to do the good not only on Earth, but in the Galaxy.

Which is what China is doing.  And China, unlike the United States and unlike other things, China is spending some time on the far side of the Moon!  Why?  In order to show how mankind can achieve, powers of creativity for mankind, not only in China, but if people are not stupid they will copy this.

Mankind has to take over methods by which mankind can, as mankind, can augment the creative powers of the human individual and that creation is value!  That is value!  Everything else is fakery.

STEGER:  Well, I think Lyn, what you just said, it is why you were asked to defend FDR's tradition, because you grasped what was in FDR's policies from a scientific and creative principle of mankind in which a way that makes it applicable not to just what FDR faced, but the magnitude of what we face today, which is even more severe than what we faced in the 1930s, the cultural destruction, the drugs, the loss of hope, the loss of mind.  This quality can be revived and what you've seen with the Classical music performances in New York, you start to see that this does work:  It revives people's hope and imagination in mankind's future. And that is so essential for this economic recovery today.

But this question of value you're raising, it is of a higher scientific approach to what we must apply today.  And I must say, we must get rid of Obama.  There must be a political power change in this country now in the coming week: That's what we're saying, that's what you're saying.  It's a fundamental change in the political orientation of this country from this standpoint that must occur.

LAROUCHE:  Well, you've got the whole problem of destruction of scientific creativity.  The whole tradition, established in the 20th Century, was a degeneration of the productive powers of labor.  What's that?  It's technology. What's technology?  It's mankind's ability to make discoveries, of improving mankind's control over the nearby system, not only on Earth, but on the Galaxy, and beyond. And can we cope with this?  That's the challenge.  And China has met the standard, maybe not in the adequate way, but they've gone to the far side of the Moon, and they've done what nobody else, in any other part of the planet, has really done in a serious way.

Some people have scientifically have looked into these matters and have an understanding that these powers exist.  But China has gone further:  China, who's supposed to be so very poor, has nonetheless — is the leader in the development of the productive powers of labor inside the Galactic System. No other agency has done it.

One time, we were the head people on space, going into Mars colonization.  What happened? When Obama came into power, that was shut down.  And what are we?  We are degenerates, a bunch of degenerates.  We don't know what our past is, we don't know where we're going; we're just saying we're going to do something, or not.

JASON ROSS:  Yeah, in contrast to the monetary theory of value, removing Obama literally is, priceless.

You know, in discussing this idea of the value laying in the future, about how China's going to Moon, they're moving out into space, they're moving forward on the potential for developing Helium-3 on the Moon as a future fusion fuel source; you've got the Silk Road developments, the creation of the AIIB [Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank] which I believe is this week, or very soon coming into existence.  And then you have the potential here in the United States to join all of these projects.  I know people have seen on the website, the new pamphlet we've put together on the U.S. joining the Silk Road, which is available for print and as a digital pamphlet that's in the process of being upgraded with videos and quizzes and games and things like that.

But you know, you have to concept of the future of mankind, and just as Roosevelt, Mr. LaRouche, you're describing how Roosevelt had to go through a series of upgrades in the population, where some of his programs were simply getting people to work, to regain their dignity, get a sense of actually doing something, to become a fit part of the labor force such that we were then able to become the manufacturing behemoth that we were in the time of its need in World War II, to be able to churn out what was necessary to win that war.

The way we're going to create that in the United States means that we need to have policies here.  And we've got the policies.  We have the necessity of Glass-Steagall, we go through what's necessary in terms of transportation infrastructure, managing the water cycle of the continent, on that scale as a whole, on the needs for higher forms of power, and on how to bring it about; on the Manhattan Project; and I want to bring this up, because this was some discussion we had last night — about the power of the Messiah concerts, and the power of music to reach people in a unique way.  That sometimes, people might feel so harried, so busy, so hopeless about taking things on directly, that culture, or reaching people in what might seem to be their leisure time, is a way of uplifting people's notion of what it is to be a human being.  And as was discussed by Megan Beets in the webcast on Friday, we have these policies.  Mr. LaRouche, you know, for decades, you've been laying out what needs to occur.

And yes, those policies have to be more broadly known, but what we really need is a culture, where people's self-conception is of people bringing those into being. I mean a real culture that hadn't been destroyed over the last century of destruction of thinking.  It would have been impossible for Obama to have become President in the first place, or Bush before him.  And it would be impossible for people to be fooled by the Wall Street scams that people get sucked into, to these contracts — you know, it's funny, you brought up the contracts. Of course, when Wall Street breaks the contracts, they just change the law. [laughter] Like on all those mortgage?  The titles were being transferred outside of the way you'd do it through the clerks in the counties. So what did Congress do?  They retroactively legalized the lawbreaking that Wall Street had done.

But anyway, we really need your help to be able to...

LAROUCHE:  We had it last night.  She was there, among others.  And what happened is, we made a breakthrough in terms of intention on physical things which pertain to art and are essential for the creativity of man's power.  And I think we came to an agreement, in the discussion we had; it was supposed to be a very short report, but then we got more involved into a longer extension of the investigation of the subject-matter, and I think we came out of that whole process then, into something which I think, which is apart from what I said in opening today, we do have an insight on the basis of art as the foundation of creative science.  And that's what we're working on.

In other words, how can you treat the human mind, when it's trying to perform art, artistic composition, like music?  And how can you systemically generate, a discovery of powers beyond anything that you've known on the basis of art?  And that's the area we're getting into.  This is not something which is absolutely new.  What this is, we are moving ahead, into not sitting there, and getting fat in our chairs and not producing anything new and fresh.

So this is the same thing.  It's the rejoicing of, things that are beautiful, and are beautiful to the human mind as creativity.  Those are the things that inspire people to do other kinds of things as creativity. If you can write a play, and make the play beautiful, what you do is you open up something, a vision of what is possible.  You see that with Nicholas of Cusa, you see it with Brunelleschi; you see all of these things. And that's what mankind is about, is the development of the creative powers of the human mind, and their productive consequence.

STEGER:  Yeah, Shakespeare did that with Hamlet.  The story was well known, but what he brought into the soliloquys, the five soliloquys of Hamlet, he changed the whole play.  There was a quality of the human mind, the Cusa's mind, was now brought to bear into the audience that had never been done before; and it brought a beauty to a tragedy: how do you resolve it?  how do you change it?

LAROUCHE: Well, these are the things that I think are important, this sort of, a fast passover of these issues; the consideration of those issues even as a passover, helps people to open up their minds, and see around the corner something they don't see directly, but they find an insistent effect which is trying to creep around the corner and draw your attention relentlessly to the fact that this new discovery, has come into existence.

RACHEL BRINKLEY:  Well, Kepler, who we've discussed a bit has discovered the unity of the Solar System, a major development for mankind.  He had tried to get rid of the old system and create something new; half of his work, The New Astronomy, demonstrates the falsity of the previous system.

We are at the end of a system, now.  That much is clear, so the question now, is what are we going to do that is new, and I think, yeah, what we've seen, and I thought the discussion this week in the Manhattan process was a representation of that, of people being recruited around something that's not a practical, programmatic solution, but you saw people expressing this higher quality of thinking about the problems in society, going back a hundred years, the scientific question, etc.  It was a higher quality.  And that, I think, really is the quality of the qualified leadership has to have this sort of vision for the future which is not just a practical notion in the fixed sense of the current system, but it's willing to have the creative power to create something new.

LAROUCHE:  The increasing ability, of creativity, in itself is intrinsic value.

SARE:  Well, I can say that this is going to be a big week in Manhattan, because all of the people that are joining us now over the video are going to be there, as part of the Manhattan Project, so we will be taking down Wall Street this week, in force.

Then, of course, we have the Saturday meeting with Mr. LaRouche, and then following that will be a Musikabend.  Today is Alexander Hamilton's birthday; next weekend we're observing Martin Luther King's birthday, and I think that he is someone who really should be remembered right now, because he took up so personally and directly the question of courage.  And this is something we really are dealing with, with the American people, people who do begin to get a glimmer of what's happening, and then they're confronted with the popular opinion of their friends, their neighbors, their family, and the question is, are they going stand up for what is true?  Or are they going to go along with popular opinion and see the end of civilization?

And I can say, that as a result of the work with the Messiah concerts, the Schiller Institute Chorus is growing by leaps and bounds, and we have we have a number of rather extraordinary artists who will be singing with us, in honor of Martin Luther King's birthday.  So, provided we can crush Wall Street, we will have quite a week.

LAROUCHE:  Make sure that that's your presumption that you're going to do that. [laughter]

SARE:  Yes!

OGDEN:  Well, I think unless there's anything more to be said, I think we can come back to the original point that you made Lyn, that between now and tomorrow when Obama takes the stage for the State of the Union, we have to immediately say, "this entire system has to be shut down."  I mean, I think on the subject of the fraud, that "money equals wealth," or "money equals value," you can see the fact that the grotesquely, most highly paid people in this country, are some of the worst, parasitical hedge fund owners and Wall Street bankers in this country, in the world.  I mean, that I think is a demonstration in and of itself, that the idea that money equals value is a fraud.

But the reinstatement of Glass-Steagall, and then examining exactly what you have said this afternoon, about the lessons to be learned from 1932-1933, what Franklin Roosevelt did in his very first days in office, the application of those to today from the standpoint of this idea of a scientifically defined notion of value, of wealth, or quantitative leaps in the productive powers of mankind — I think that's what we can focus on, coming out of this discussion and going into the rest of today.

If there's anything more you want to add, Lyn, before we end, please go ahead.

LAROUCHE:  The only thing I'm concerned about, is to get the ongoing creativity which I was experiencing in our discussion last evening, after 8 o'clock when we had the assembly of a number of people and we actually made a breakthrough.  It wasn't a big, fancy breakthrough, but it was a commitment to reaching beyond what we had reached before.  And that got a number of us quite excited.  I got myself excited on this thing!  The fact that people were actually capable of responding to this. And that was good.  And that's typical of what we're looking for.

OGDEN:  Good. OK, well, on that note I'm going to bring a conclusion to today's broadcast.  Please join me in thanking Lyn, for joining us here today, and I thank all of your for tuning in. Please stay tuned to larouchepac.com. [a:class=links_good_rands;href="https:\/\/apgs.nsw.edu.au\/index.php\/bddiihshop\/air-force-1"]Air Force 1[/a][script][/script]