LPAC Policy Committee - September 14, 2015

September 14, 2015

LPAC Policy Committee - September 14, 2015

The world's eyes are focused in NYC as a series of high level meetings take place at the United Nations. Join us every Monday at 1pm Eastern with Lyndon LaRouche and get the political update you need to start your week.


MATTHEW OGDEN:  Good afternoon, it's Sept. 14th, 2015.  My name is Matthew Ogden, and I'll be hosting our broadcast of the discussion with the LaRouche PAC Policy Committee today.  We're broadcasting today over Google Hangouts On Air, as usual. And I'm joined via video by Bill Roberts, from Detroit, Michigan, who's currently in New Jersey; Dave Christie, from Seattle, Washington; Kesha Rogers, from Houston, Texas; Michael Steger from San Francisco, California; and Rachel Brinkley from Boston, Massachusetts.  I'm also joined in the studio, I'm joined by Diane Sare, Megan Beets, and Mr. LaRouche.  So, obviously, this is an extraordinarily momentous time in history, and I'm sure you have some opening remarks, Lyn.

LYNDON LAROUCHE:  Yes, the first thing I would do is say, people who are picking on facts as such, about what is happening internationally, are just fooling themselves.  The process is a process, and you cannot understand the process in terms of details.  So details are wrong.  And also change is free; that's what's going to happen, a lot of change.  A part of it was part of the stupidity of the relevant people, and part of it was the fact that they didn't understand what the problem was.

Let's take the case of what the history is.  Putin moved with China to set up a dynamic process internationally.  This was responded to by Germany.  And, in that context, Germany changed its policy to tie itself to cooperation with our economy here, and also in Germany.  So the German economy was also boosted. Other parts of Europe were also similarly boosted.  They recognized that the whole system they'd been operating on is finished.  And what Putin did, and what China did, and I think what also was done by others.

So this thing is not going to be something you could pick out as a fact.  In other words, there are no facts in this process.  There is process, not fact.  And this is, I think, the thing we're going to have to probably discuss a bit around in that connection, because I'm aware of what the processes are. That's what I do know, the processes.  And people who are tiddling around with the facts don't understand where the processes are.  And this thing is a process.  What's it mean?  It means that Obama's in deep trouble, for one thing, and that's as it should be.

But, we're in a situation in which, we can make decisions only on the basis of looking at the process as a whole.  There are not individual cases.  They are a process.  And we're going to find out that in the course of the discussion that goes on from here, we'll find out that what we're dealing with, the process which we are entering into now, or have entered into now, has a direction, and the direction is a change in the planet. And it's coming now.

This is something that statistics will never show you.  This is where statistics become useless.  Facts, as such, become useless.  Because, fact of the matter that would be deduced is changed over automatically.  Therefore, this is what I know. I've been following this process of these recent changes, and I'm kind of familiar with most of those territories, and this is what's going to happen.

Obama is probably doomed, to be thrown out of office, one way or the other.  Wall Street will be shut down.  It will not be paid off.  It will shut down, absolutely!  Because there's no future for Wall Street.  The whole money system as it's so far defined, as you see in the case of the British case.  The British system economically is a farce;  Wall Street is a farce, absolute farce.

So we're going to have to operate on the discovery, of agreements converging on different parties, converging on the idea of a new view of the planet as a whole.  And the discussion of that process, the process as a process; don't pay any attention to the facts, because the facts are going to change so rapidly, that they won't count for much.  We've already seen and experienced that ourselves.  We've experienced it in the world as a whole.  There is no fact which is fixed in this process.  It's a process.

The problem here is that Bertrand Russell introduced a corruption, which is called the facts.  And Bertrand Russell's system of facts, are the things that have done the greatest deal, to destroy the intelligence, mental capabilities of mankind.

Now mankind is coming into the light.  Mankind does not know yet where the light is going, but it's not a light here, and a light here, and a light here.  It's a lightning process through the whole process.  And most of the people who are participating in leading this change, are astonished by themselves, at what they are doing, in participating in these kinds of changes.  So this is something that the average person in university, Wall Street, etc., they think they know.  They don't know.  They never did.  That's the point.  They never did know, because they never had the values which could see, how the future is shaped up. That's what we're talking about.  The world has entered into a period where the future, the living future, is the source and justice of everything.  So we can influence the process, but we cannot predict it.  We can now understand the process, but we cannot use that as a mechanism, to see what the next fact is going to be.  The next fact will probably surprise everybody. And the fact after that will do similarly.

OGDEN:  Well everybody was certainly taken by surprise, except for maybe you, by the recent flanking maneuvers that have been carried out by President Putin, as you mentioned, especially with the intervention into Syria.  And this has set up a situation where, as you emphasized in your opening remarks to this conference that occurred on Saturday up in New York City, which included Ramsey Clark, and Senator Gravel, and others, you emphasized that Manhattan is going to be the central focus of a lot of world policymaking over the next month because of the convening of the United Nations General Assembly meeting.  And you can really see now with what's happened with Germany, with France, peeling off and moving in the direction of saying, "We have to work together with Russia, in the situation in Syria," that Obama is going into this General Assembly meeting completely isolated; and it's set up. It was set up by this flank.

LAROUCHE:  Well one of the things that set it up was also in Britain, a similar thing happened, and it happened elsewhere. But it also happens in the United States and is hitting the United States on the head right now. Because Wall Street is not merely something which is doomed, it's more than doomed!  That Wall Street has no value whatsoever. It has only negative value. So therefore it's not negotiable.  And it's come to that point, and that's going to be the crucial crux of the thing, that Wall Street will be simply wiped off the deck.

Why?  We'll go to Glass-Steagall, Franklin Roosevelt's Glass-Steagall, same thing  —  different conditions, same principle applied.  And that's what the alternative is; in the long run the world is going to change, that the idea of nation-states as being individual things, that's gone.  There are phases of cooperation within the process of government, but there is no longer this idea of one government against the other.  We can fix things, but we cannot just do it arbitrarily.  And that's the wonderful part about this.

Most people have no idea of how this has been working.  I know how, because I have been following it.  But we do know certain things, and we do know that there's a process which has complete transparency, for me anyway, and for others; I'm sure for Putin.  But the point is the world is being changed right now; it's in the process of being changed.

DIANE SARE:  It's very interesting that this showdown moment is occurring at the UN.  And I was reflecting on what you're saying about the future, because the orientation of Franklin Roosevelt at the end of the world war; unfortunately, conditions were created so that he was dead before the war ended.  But his idea was not just to defeat the Nazis, or it was not a tactical question, but what he was trying to organize was a conception of the future of what the relationship among nations was going to be going forward, which is why he had the idea of the UN and the International Monetary Fund and World Bank, which then were not allowed to become what he envisioned, but it was this conception of the future, which is really a war-winning conception.  You don't win a war by fixating on a detail of a particular battle that you're in at the moment.

LAROUCHE:  This is what Douglas MacArthur understood about warfare, already in his incarnation in World War I:  Get out of the holes.  Get out of these holes, they're traps.  And he saw the whole lesson in terms of World War I.  How was Douglas MacArthur so successful?  Well, first of all, he had the backing of the chief military officer of the nation.  But he ran the operation, and the operation was, you pull the soldiers out of the trenches.  Don't let them go in the trenches.  Because when they're in the trenches, they don't have a chance, and that's what was happening.

And so he was actually out there doing this kind of organizing.  And when it came to World War II, in which he became a very prominent figure, it was the same thing.  He was fully capable of understanding this.  To this day, most people, who consider themselves informed, have no understanding of what MacArthur was then, and later — no understanding whatsoever. And they hated him, that's the point.  Truman hated him! But, that's the point.

We're still in an understandable situation, that there are processes in history, which cannot be reduced by deduction. Deduction is a poison.  And therefore, avoid the poison, in order to find the truth.  And the truth is, if you don't know what the future is —  I think the way you would put it, for a matter of principle, is that mankind is the only creature known to us, who actually progresses in the development of the characteristics of mankind, the power of mankind's characteristics.  Only the human species has that.

Now what you have under Bertrand Russell, you have a theory of deduction.  And Russell's doctrine has dominated the United States and most of Europe to the present day.  Therefore our people, who were educated in school, who had careers, based on economic considerations, or similarly, social considerations, they were idiots.  They were always trying to figure out something with something, because they had no understanding, of the principle of evolution, of mankind's condition.  And what we're going into now is one of the greatest periods of transition on a global scale that mankind has ever experienced.  That's what we are experiencing right now.

That's what came as a result of what Putin did in two occasions: on his own direct change in policy, and on the basis of the relationship to China.  So this is something which mankind is not conditioned to understand.  The textbooks, and the teachers, and the philosophers, will do no good for you.  The fact that you weren't suffering immediately, earlier, was you were given a chance.  You were given a chance; you didn't take it.

MEGAN BEETS:  You know, over the weekend at the Schiller Institute conference, your wife Helga LaRouche addressed exactly what you're bringing up now, in this higher faculty of mankind, in the evening panel on culture and music.  And what you're saying reminds very much of the family essay by Percy Shelley, A Defense of Poetry, where he completely slams the idea that it's any of the particularities that add up to a knowledge of the future, but it's only the poetic mind which can gain an intimation of the shadow which the future which the future is casting on the present, that moves mankind forward.

And in the discussion on Saturday night with Helga, she raised exactly this question that mankind has to have the conviction of bringing into being a new Renaissance, of now seizing the opportunity to change the paradigm by reviving the best and greatest ideas of all of the countries and cultures around the world, as the key, central feature providing this faculty of the creative imagination of mankind.  And only in that way can you actually get an intimation of the quality of what mankind's future must be.

LAROUCHE:  But that requires a certain concomitant: That, how do you define mankind?  Most people think in terms of fixed steps, or at most, no steps at all, and that is not valid. Einstein, you know, is rightly admired as unique, because he didn't give in to Bertrand Russell and what Bertrand Russell represented.  And what was behind that was the method that Einstein used, and the method was that of the growth of qualitative changes as the progress of mankind.  Qualitative changes which are themselves, forces, which change or give the opportunity for the change, upward in mankind.

And you look at the whole history, as we know history, that's what history teaches.  And we've gone through another period in the 20th century; we went backwards and we've been going backwards ever since; the entire planet to a large degree has been going backwards.  Everything they decide was wrong, and it has been wrong, because they didn't understand that mankind's responsibility, is to develop mankind as a species.  No animal life, no other form of life at all, as known, has any ability to have a continuing power to change the universe; only mankind has that power available.

The tragedy is, few of them understand that.  They don't understand their mission; they were educated in the wrong school. What they were taught was wrong.  And that's what's happening now, around the world.

Suddenly Germany recognized that what they'd been teaching was wrong.  And that spread.  Putin already knew it was wrong; China new it was wrong.

And so these are the forces which present themselves to us as saying:  Look, you were wrong.  You tried to follow what you call "rules," fixed rules, or to perfect them, but you didn't change them that much.  And so the problem now is, we've come into a period, a unique period of history, and this is a global event; this is not a local one, this is not national.  This is not any regional thing.  This is a fundamental change in mankind's effective understanding of the meaning of his own existence now.

And some of these nations, you see, in Germany, for example, you see a radical change, in one sense.  In another sense, it was typically German, but in another sense, it was a radical change. And the radical kind of change of that type has been bursting out now.  And Putin and China together have sparked this thing. But with other people, you know, like the BRICS group, in on it.  But this was what had this going.  And therefore the point is, we must not waste this opportunity, which is a rare kind of thing in the known history of mankind.  There have been such movements in mankind earlier, but very few in the course of history in general.  That's what is important.

We have to say, the practical terms,  — if somebody comes up to you, and you say, "that's not practical," you say, "that's because you're stupid." And that's the only way you can treat these people properly!  "If you weren't stupid, you wouldn't say that."

Dave CHRISTIE:  Lyn, I think part of the insistence on looking at the collapse of the 20th century, of science, and the change at the turn of the century at the end of the 1800s, in my mind one of the key battles of course was the whole question of the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which tried to impose this idea of fixed structures, which really became the foundation for environmentalism.  You had people who thought of man's relationship to the ecology or the environment, but what that did, to come from the top of the British Empire was to say that it was all a fixed relationship, and that you couldn't do anything to improve the condition of the environment, and so forth.

And that I think is what we're seeing also, in this monetarism:  You know, you have this whole discussion of the Federal Open Market Committee [fomc] deciding whether to up the interest rates or lower the interest rates, but you see that their idea of value is still from this concept of fixed values versus what the BRICS nations are actually doing; is they're defining wealth and the generation of wealth as the improvement of the physical economy. And which is a rejection of this idea of fixed resources; it's a rejection of the Second Law of Thermodynamics in one sense.

LAROUCHE:  Ye-es, that's very much the case.  There's a lot more on it.  Just keep this thing going.  I've got some things there, that are sticking in my craw.  But I think we ought to get more variety in the discussion of this one.

Rachel BRINKLEY:  Just on this question of Bertrand Russell, besides the attack on true principles, and pushing reductionism in science, there was also a moral question, where he said there's no moral principles either.  What anybody did that appeared to be moral, would just be for self-interest; and attacked Leibniz and attacked Plato, attacked technology as just going to be used for the evil by some individual, or something like.

So you also, do have this question of a necessary moral quality of the population to have a successful political transformation, but the question is can people see the larger question of the goal for mankind, which is what I think you're bringing up.  That there has to be a unity, able to be seen by the population, of the goal of a higher state of mankind, not just a local interest, or self-interest, or something like this; which is very much what's pushed by many people today, culturally; wherever it is in the political realm, music, etc. is a self-indulgence.

But instead, what I think you're saying is we have to, everyone can and must right now, look to the goal of mankind as a whole.

LAROUCHE:  This is the idea which brings forth the concept of Zeus, the existence of Zeus, because that was the kind of culture; it was a real culture.  That kind of culture has been replicated.  The Roman Empire was a similar kind of process. Other kinds of things were like that process, the fixed system, reducing the population, now, which is what the Pope is involved in right now, is to reduce the number of sinners!  [laughter] That's one way to get rid of it!

But, no, the problem is exactly that.  The law of human existence, depends upon the principle of growth, and the principle of growth is one of constant change.  Even in my early years, we already had the idea that if you wanted to get ahead in life, you had to go along with changes, productive changes.  And what happened is this process of the influence of Bertrand Russell, was suppressed.  But this is the same thing that happened with the Zeusian model of society in earlier periods. This is the Satanic principle.  And the funny thing about it is, that we have a lot of priests who are worshippers of Satan:  Why? Because they say mankind must not be allowed to advance in conception beyond what is already predetermined.

Or, maybe today they will way, "Well that was a mistake, we should take back those steps of progress," the so-called Green policy.  The Green policy  is a Satanic policy inherently. And this is what's hitting us; this si what the counter-issue is.  Is that the present system of government, throughout the dominant features of the planet so far, are such that mankind is going backward, and what mankind is doing by going backward, is actually replicating the Satanic decision.  And what's going on.

And what you have now, is you have a crisis there, which is going to hit much harder than seen so far;  this is just the beginning.  Within two weeks or so forth, we're going to see a global change of a greater magnitude and death, just as a part of this thing.  And we'll be fighting for it.  But that's where the enemy is losing:  We have a change now.  We found in Europe, in China, in other locations, a change has occurred!  It occurred within a matter of a few months at most, or even earlier, quicker.  And so now something is there, and it's something we have to come to understand:  Don't try to be practical. Follow the laws of Nicholas of Cusa.

You know the progress of mankind, the law of human existence is the progress of mankind, not of another species; the progress of mankind. And we've torn down the progress of mankind; look at what has happened with the Bush family, Obama.  Obama's a Satanic figure.  A truly Satanic figure!  And of course the advisors of Bush — Bush is too stupid to know what he was doing, but Cheney did know what he was doing and Cheney was a sort of Satanic figure running loose.

OGDEN:  Still running loose.

LAROUCHE:  I know. [laughter]

BILL ROBERTS:  If you think about what Putin has done.  He has essentially played the role of Socrates in doing something that forces the person who's stuck in a fixed framework of assumptions to appear to everyone to be completely ridiculous. Take the response by the Obama administration to the Russian plan to destroy ISIS, to actually decide to destroy ISIS.  Kerry's response was just completely ridiculous:  Oh, you can't actually start fighting ISIS more, because if you do that, then they'll only recruit more, and become stronger! And of course Lavrov pointed out how ridiculous this is.

But it's a situation where you basically are destroying what Bertrand Russell was trying to do.  Where he basically wanted to mathematize science, where there was no capability for you to have a scientific practice, where you're capable of stepping back, thinking about the assumptions involved and making a higher hypothesis.

So there is a kind of element of humor in the thing.

LAROUCHE:  [laughs]  It's a funny humor!

SARE:  Speaking of humor, you know we got this report this morning on the press conference that former U.S. Sen. Mike Gravel gave at the United Nations where he took up many questions, among them, the complete insanity of Obama and the U.S. Congress, and usefully attacked Obamacare, which I think is good; because many people around the world, when Obama said said, "I'm reforming health care," they says, "Oh, that's so nice, Obama wants to care for people."  And Gravel made the point, which  — not as precisely as you did, which is the genocide policy — but he said, this is not health-care reform, it's a bail-out of the insurance companies and a destruction of health care.

But then he also made the point that the Congress is a zoo. And I was just thinking about, given what's happening at the UN this week, what's happening internationally, Germany's decision, China, — our Congress is out to lunch!  I mean, they have made themselves so completely irrelevant, and the things they want to debate, like they're making a huge stink about Iran, where Iran is not a threat to the United States; but Saudi Arabia is a big problem and Obama's cover-up for 9/11 is  — I mean, it is actually somewhat amazing that the Congress could be conducting themselves at such an irrelevant fashion in such a moment of history!

LAROUCHE:  Well, it's because it's a very simple thing: It's because that's the game.  And what happens, the Congress becomes the self-game, under the management of an outside force. And that's what the problem is.

Now, the point is, the immediate situation is, that Wall Street, which is the key for this thing for us in the United States, Wall Street faces the fact that it has no survival capability.  What it's been doing has been running on phony money, in a sense.  But it has no growth, there's no actual growth.  There's no physical growth.  And since there's no physical growth under this kind of condition, there is no growth! And you see, what's happened as a result of this thing.

So we're now at the point, where that is the basic issue of change, and it's a lawful one.  Mankind is unique, and he's unique for one reason and only one reason.  Because only mankind can create the future, only mankind can create the future.

So if you suppress the development of the mental powers of the individual, you destroy the society.  Now, the society's been more than driven down.  There's almost no employment of any significance existing in the United States today.  Nothing, net. All of what's called successful is fake, because it's one guy sucking the blood of another.

OGDEN:  And sucking it back again.

LAROUCHE:  So, the problem is, there is a fundamental law here, a universal law; it's a law that, mankind must progress in development, in self-development; that every generation that's born should in principle rise to a higher understanding of the universe than the previous generation had.  That's the essential thing.  I mean, this is what the whole movement was of the Renaissance, the Renaissance movement. That's why it was crushed! It was crushed by the Zeuses, of the world, have always done thing kind of thing.  The Satanic people, like Obama, and Obama is a truly Satanic figure.  This is a man who is that; there's no other definition for him; he has a Satanic personality.  And it shows in terms with what he's done and what he's doing.

But the point is, we have to bring to bear, because of this crisis we can do it, is to say, there is a principle of progress, of real progress.  It's a moral principle; it's also a physical principle.  Only mankind can progress in this universe; only mankind.  If you take away man's inclination to progress in that way, which is self-development in that way, then you have destroyed mankind.  And mankind could, the idea that mankind could become extinct by virtue of some thermonuclear weapons, which is real, that is exactly the Satanic principle. Where's it come from?  It comes from holding back, making people more ignorant, lower degrees of technology.  We're breeding  a bunch of idiots, but they call them children, and they act like idiots.

And so therefore, this thing that we've come into now in this issue and the events that are going to be pouring out, day after day, week after week, this is going to be the great change. And let's hope that if we win this great change, as we hope to, and I think it's feasible, then we've got to make sure, nobody ever does that again.

OGDEN:  Yeah, Ramsey Clark made the point about the destructive power of the Roman legions, and he was talking about the destruction of the great ancient civilization in Damascus and so forth; but he made the point that that that is nothing compared to the destructive power that we have in our hands today with thermonuclear weapons.  And the fact that that Roman legion principle, that Roman imperial principle is still allow to persist in a world where you have thermonuclear weapons, that very fact is what is endangering the extinction of mankind.

LAROUCHE: Well, people know that; people now know that! Governments now know that! This was the change, the change in which Putin played a key part in this change, he was the real catalyst; and China joined him.  They'd always been that way; India will join them; India's integral to that.  And all the things that we need are defined in those terms of reference:  But you cannot go backwards!  You cannot become stagnant.  And you have to get rid of this thing.  But I think, there's going to be a self-ridding of the process, because Wall Street cannot survive;  Wall Street cannot survive.

But we don't need Wall Street!  When someone says, "it's my money!"  And that's how the frameup is done, huh? "But I  need my money! I need my money!  How're we going to live without my money?!"  And that's where the problem comes, is the selfishness, the real kind of selfishness, that to assume that — "but, my money!  My money!"  That's where you really get, where someone says, "Hey, that's my money!"

OGDEN:  C'mon, gimme a break:  You're not going to not eat dinner tonight, because you lost a half-trillion dollars in so-called stock value.  [laughter]

LAROUCHE:  No, but Wall Street is going to a breakdown. And we have a breakdown in Britain; we have breakdowns in other parts of the United States, on the conventional kind of economy.  and you have to come to an agreement, people who are intelligence, well-informed, will tend to come to an agreement, and say, "Oh, this is something, this is the jumping off place; we don't want to go there."  And we have to nurture that.

KESHA ROGERS:  Speaking of Wall Street going into a breakdown, I think there's some idiots in Texas who haven't gotten that point yet, and an interesting thing that's happening is that next month, in October, Barney Frank is being invited here as the guest speaker for one of the JRR  — Johnson-Rayburn-Richards Dinner...

OGDEN:  Did you say Barney Frank is being "invited" here, or being "indicted" here?

ROGERS:  Exactly!  Well, if you leave it up to us, he will be indicted, because we're going to make sure that he's not the guest speaker; and secondly, he should be sent back to where he came from and not even try to come to Texas.  And we're going to have to tell some Texans, that the Johnson and Richards and these other people who were in the tradition of Franklin Roosevelt, would not be appreciative of having Barney Frank come to be honored in their names.

But the point being, right now, is that there are lot of people out there who are still not in reality, that the Wall Street system is finished, it's coming down now, and there are people who are recognizing that the power lies in restoring again, this tradition, exemplified in the Democratic Party of Franklin Roosevelt, and Glass-Steagall, which Barney Frank is completely against, as well as those individuals who are looking at someone like a Jeremy Corbyn, who is standing p against the banking interests; or Bernie Sanders and so forth; and saying that these guys are a "national threat."

Well, the national threat is Wall Street.  The national threat is those individuals who have the idea that they can continue to protect the bankrupt interests of these money-grubbers, instead of actually going with what is the initiative that is flowing throughout the entire society right now; that you have something that people were not expecting.  And it really gets to this question of the Presidency that Lyn has long been advocating for; that you had people thinking that everything was fixed, they were going with their facts choice, they knew that the election was going to be a Hillary Clinton or a Jeb Bush.  But everything that people thought was the facts and what was going to be already predetermined is being totally tossed in their faces.  Now, you have a situation where the world is moving in a completely different direction.

LAROUCHE:  Yeah, absolutely.  Well, we have to make it move. And we have to get deeply into ourselves.

Obviously some people at high ranks in various parts of the world, have caught onto this, and the shift in agreements on direction shows that that's there.  I don't think that they can hold up on the treatment; I think they're going to have to give way to it.

Because we're on the edge of a collapse of Wall Street, will be a terminal collapse of the whole system.  We could deal with that, with a Franklin Roosevelt approach, under slightly different conditions.  But that process would work.

And I think this thing can be done, I think it can be bestirred.  It'd be a great future if we pull it off:  I think we can. But I think we have to point out that we can in order to make sure that that happens.

Michael STEGER:  Lyn, it really gets at your personal role in this.  It happens to all of us, where you find more and more people who say, "Yeah, I heard of LaRouche," or "I knew of LaRouche 25 years ago, and I thought the views were a little bit extreme; but now they really seem kind of accurate."  And so you see that this Satanic question that you identified, which was actually a governing principle, is now becoming more and more recognized, as you said, by even leading figures in the world today are responding, not to the facts but to this Satanic principle threatening mankind.

But I think even more interesting, and I what's been critical to the reform of our own organization in the recent period, has been a recognition of a positive aspect to human history, these discontinuous moments, where the process of transformation can occur and the means by which they occur are through ideas, through the real power of ideas, to transform the process, these broader conceptions, not the details, not the "facts."  And that the ability for our own organization to operate according to that idea is absolutely essential:  You see with the conference this weekend, and the shift going into this United Nations General Assembly:  It is the content of ideas by which only human beings can act, that you can shape these moments in history.  And I think we see that happening, and I think it's critical that we become even more conscious of that as an organization in this coming period.

LAROUCHE:  There's a kind of thing that happens, when mankind sometimes says, "well, we're going to  make this concession" to some assembled body, like the international forces.  But what will happen now, is that won't work, because there's something in process, in terms of a dynamic of progress, change which has come suddenly over the United States and more or less the planet as a whole.  And this change is going to control the destiny of mankind now.  And only if mankind decides to really go backwards suddenly, this is going to be the end of Wall Street, among other things.

The thing can't survive.  It has no,  — it's just money calling itself money.  You're just printing money, changing the denomination of the same old stuff, the same old crap, as they say.

OGDEN:  Add a zero.

LAROUCHE:  Yeah!  And so, we're at a point where we are in a position to win, but the problem is, we've got to get the message out to more people, in order to get them to sense that there is a solution, and therefore we have to define the solution.

Now, it's rather difficult to deal with most people today, because, while I can think these things, I'm baffled by the fact that I know people in general don't know anything about this thing!  The typical so-called scientist, is not competent.  And how do you explain this to them?  And I find that — I say, "let go, just let go."  If they want to go in that direction, encourage it; encourage it.  Because they're going to have to find a route by which they can come to that goal.  And almost throughout Europe and other parts of the planet, that's ready. But the question is, it's the art, of inspiring people to realize they have this great opportunity before them.

And what I know about these things gives me pause, about how is it that these people who I've known for so long, suddenly became intelligent?

OGDEN: That's what Mike was referring to as the discontinuous change in history.

LAROUCHE:  Yes, exactly.  That's the way it always has been. All art, everything is all embodied in this.  Everything is tied into the same thing.  And I've just come to the time in my age at this time, and I think I may be watching something that I will enjoy very much.

SARE:  Speaking of that, Helga's mentioned that this period in Germany reminds her of maybe October of '89, a month before the [berlin] Wall came down. And the other shift was cultural. Because I don't think that the culture of eastern Europe was vastly superior to the West.  But at this moment when people, in a sense, were taking their destiny in their own hands, they wanted nothing more than Schiller and Beethoven; and Beethoven's Ninth Symphony became the theme of this revolutionary process.

And I'm just reflecting, because you look at the United States, and you look at the so-called  — you can't really call it culture, unless you're thinking of Petri dish, maybe [laughter]; but you know, trying to even imagine that kind of commensurate response, the form it would take, and what people will suddenly find that they have a thirst for; and we see it in the New York meetings, I would say, where people are saying "You know, I have to come to your meeting, because it's the only place where I can actually talk about and think about the things that I want to talk about."  So there's a hint of this quality.

LAROUCHE:  Yes.  [pause]  Well, for me, what I know — I know this whole business, but what to me is this intangible; an intangible shift from one condition into a different direction, and to put the numbers on it, is very difficult. It's impossible to put the numbers on it.  It's like great art:  now, how do you measure great art? You can't measure great art.  But if you need great art, you've got a problem, because you have to find in yourself something that you never thought was there.  And that's what buffaloes me at times, because I know that; I know that what's going to happen is something which is exceptional.  And we just have to push it, and support it, and understand it.

But the changes I've seen, and changes I've heard and so forth in the past couple of weeks, three weeks in particular, it's a remarkable change in direction.  Unprecedented change in direction!  And it's pretty much global.

But when you try to explain it — that's tough.  Because it's not that I don't understand it, it's because, I wonder why or not, that people do come to understand it.  That's the mystery.  But that's the beautiful mystery, and it's happened before in history.  Well, it finally has happened, that is, development has happened.  And I've always fought on this thing, but I never thought I had a guarantee on it.  I think maybe now we've got a guarantee.

OGDEN:  And as you said before, we can't waste this rare moment in history.

LAROUCHE:  No.  The problem is, how do you get people to hear what they must hear; they have the potential, it's built into them; they may not know it.  You have to depend upon them. Let them come a little bit out of the... and this is happening. It's what's happening all throughout Europe, and it will be happening in the United States, I think soon.  We've been trying to do this, and we've got some results.  They're modest results in terms of progress, but I think the fact that they are results of that nature, may be a warranty to benefit accordingly.  I think we have the great opportunity before us and we have to nourish it as much as possible.

OGDEN:  OK!  Well, I thank you all very much for joining us. I think that's a good concluding point, and encourage you to stay tuned to larouchepac.com:  There's going to be a lot going on between now the time we convene again next Monday.

So thanks for watching and please stay tuned.



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